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Número 276 - Zaragoza - Diciembre 2023|
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Hola, amigos: Seguro que alguna vez os habréis encontrado con algún texto de o sobre Wagner en alemán o inglés y habréis pensado: "Hay que j.....". Pues no, hay una solución (aunque no es el la panacea universal). Hay un traductor on line en Yahoo que puede servirnos. Traduce de unos idiomas a otros. Desgraciadamente, suele ser a través del English. Por ello, si queremos traducir un texto del alemán al español, hemos de hacer el paso intermedio (del alemán al inglés), más o menos como nuestras carreteras, trenes o aviones... Lo tenéis en este enlace y es gratuito: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt Ea capaz de traducir en un periquete una web entera. Yo lo he hecho con WM y os adjunto un botón de muestra: Of: Antón Date: 24/12/2008 15:27 Subject: Happiness for all and all! It is a precious day (in fact they have given me afternoon free). It is a day in that I am going to see the brothers and nephews who I do not see in all the year. It is a day in that if you believe in the Christian God it satisfies your life totally and if you do not believe in anything takings glasses of more, dinners a little more and joint parties your life enough of more with other people. It is a day takes that us to the childhood. Christmas. Christmas is beautiful. In spite of everything, she is beautiful. It is a cultural question, I know already it. But? what we are going to him to do. It has his good things! truth? THIRST HAPPY, FRIENDLY OF THE OPERA, THE ART. THIRST HAPPY, today, tomorrow and the 20 of February, and the 14 of June and ...... To respond To print Of: JORDI Date: 24/12/2008 16:09 Subject: RE: Happiness for all and all! Also we wished much happiness you and to your dear Isolda. You always have our house if you dress Majorca someday, and by all means much health and luck to which you participate in this old forum. Margalida i Jordi To respond To print Of: kleinzack Date: 24/12/2008 20:48 Subject: RE: Happiness for all and all! I add me to your good desires, I go to hacerte case in the one of the glasses of but without lack, Christmas is beautiful, is truth, in spite of everything. a fraternal hug to all the wagnermaniacos and to which no, also. Especially to that by some reason they will not be where they loved or with who wanted to be, nonbelieving believers or, who La Paz is with all you. K. To respond To print Of: WANFRIEDVAL Date: 25/12/2008 10:37 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Me one to the general congratulation and good desires for next year. I have asked Kings Magos a desire ?that is respected as Wagner must; that the escénocos directors are faithful and they are not desmadren, the abundant programmings, the fabulous singers and is peace between the jurisdictional ones of good will. wanfriedval To respond To print Of: assur Date: 25/12/2008 12:06 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Merry Christmas to all you men and women of good will. That the art redeems to us and us makes better in this new year. Assur. To respond To print Of: rexvalrex Date: 25/12/2008 21:57 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Me one to the congratulations and good jurisdictional desires of the previous ones. I have basic Wagner, which me pransmite good vibrations, but for that reason I cannot forget that neither the art, nor the culture, nor the education, nor nothing don’t mention it are going to us to redeem because the man (and the woman, clearly) continue being a wolf for the man; hell exists in the Earth and we have created it. While others are put to diet by excess of weight (there I usually am) pass necessity and, even, they die of hunger. While we sang carols, we are with the family, etc., etc. continue being wars, tortures, injustices and badness. Equal has we are thus because the means that surround to us make us be thus or vice versa, that the world is thus because we are thus by own nature (more of demons, than of men). I have been with my parents (already majors) and we have spent a good short while remembering times past (that the old women live more in the past than in the present), but I do not want to be deceived. The world continues being equal and we go direct to the abyss. That yes, the art makes the thing most bearable, to which we at least have sensitivity for it. Wagner, its music, ?elevates to us? to that we loved that it, but continues having young hungry, young soldiers, prostituidos, young children exploded like slaves who make objects for us to price of cost. The world is thus. We have done it thus. And there is no remedy. At this Christmas time we lived in a state of blindness or collective hypocrisy. It is not that they will pass the celebrations and it will follow all equal, is that nothing changes because is 24, 25 or 31 of December. Simply it is established that we greet ourselves, we put good face, we express best desires, we consume more (than he is the unique thing that matter, because we are not than consuming more than the system it offers to us). You pardon these negative pensamentos, but it is what it comes to me at the top. Warm greetings and felicitémonos all we whom the best part of the pie has touched to us and we have access to the modern technologies when others (million in the world) are not that they have never seen or a telephone, nor the television (that equal leave winning), but its unique occupation is to wait for with fatalism the day of its death. In spite of good desires of the redeeming art (beautiful, but utopian) we are in the world, that is like the Titánic sinking, brightened up by a quartet of cord. The art? and its funeral function, like the music that accompanies the burials? We eat and we drink now that we can, that tomorrow we will die?. It follows the plague black and Boccaccio brightens up to us with its stories. Decamerón follows effective? like the Inferno de Dante. We do what we pruned by the others; we give all the love them that we are able to give, but we are not deceived, we go towards the abyss we know and it. Happy dreams. Rex, in catatónico state. To respond To print Of: ls111553 Date: 26/12/2008 02:54 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Happy celebrations to all from the other side of the pool! And for you, Rex friend, hazte please to take two Alka-Seltzers to digest the excess of bile, dale thanks to God (or to luck, if it goes to you better) to spend another Christmas next to your parents, and if the doliente humanity saddens to you, contributes to Caritas, or UNICEF, or to which it seems more commendable to you. It is not necessary to forget that in spite of the present problems, the world has undergone much worse times (it is necessary to see the presumptuous thing that we are when we declared champions until of the misfortunes). And please, nothing of Tristán nor of the Ocaso if they are going to us to throw to lose Christmases! With the Teachers and a little Lohengrin we fulfilled Wagner and of the rest they are in charge Mozart, Bach, Tchaikovsky? and Celia Cross. Finally, I remember to you that great part of which nothing has cannot occur that so romantic luxury of the existential fatalism. Very they are occupied looking for like surviving day day and the best thing than we can do is to help them the optimism yet that we pruned. I have learned it to this ?on the land? and it is not blindness nor hypocrisy. It is the life and in good or the bad ones, it must have life and by her it is necessary to fight. The death that is taken care of single, that does very well. As far as the consumption, because I declare culprit, reincidente and inarrepentible in which it allows this poop me of economy in which we were. It does awhile, while mother helped to put itself standing up after to have dinner, was happened to me that water so verily low (they were fashionable in the eighty) that there is in the bath of my old must be a torture for somebody with frequent attacks of arthritis. Then nothing, thanks to the Internet, I finish buying to them without leaving house a Kohler Archer Right Height (42 cm. of stop, which will be to them much more comfortable and will go of wonder with the railings of security that I installed to them in August), able to unload 15 golf balls - or six of tennis in one go. That the market economy lives, by annoyed that is! So congratulations to all, and if we did not find many congratulations, because us the construímos. This can be so easy and effective as a simple ?nothing, that it seems that you are a cojonudo uncle and you do not know what I very mainly am glad of tenerte of hermano/a, amigo/a, etc.? and, ?I want to you not only by the good thing that you are, but by the good thing that you are? to your age?. Merry Christmas to all and to all to good night! Luis To respond To print Of: Antón Date: 26/12/2008 14:11 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! My dear Rex, your speech is very pessimistic. Too much reality either aid. Also we lived in the world of the hope. My speech is vital, optimistic. Being as I am become fond of to the music of Wagner and the philosophy of Schopenhauer! , in those who encounter the ideal of .redemption in spite of its apparent pesimism. Christmas is beautiful. The world that we know is beautiful. The life is extraordinarily complex and precious. And everything tends to the chaos. For that reason each of us, in our simple/complex lives we have to look for that small point of happiness whose duration is short in the material and eternal time in the memory ?of for always?. I do not have idols nor models to follow. Nevertheless I admire deeply Richard Wagner. This alive in theirs and he, consists according to me by the acquired knowledge has known to take advantage of each momentito happiness. And thus he must be, without forgetting to our resemblances and little that we pruned to do by them. Antón, having a discussion before the mirror. - To respond To print Of: JORDI Date: 26/12/2008 21:21 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Dear Rex, leaves of side to Wagner these celebrations and riete a little whole and of same you. Now it is time to do case to the old Verdi and repítete ten times to the day which says the choir that closes the last act of Falstaff: Clean Tutto nel è deceives. Mocking L´uom è born, nel suo cervello ciurla sempre sua ragione. Tutti gabbati! irride l´un to l´altro ogni mortal. Ma ride horseradish tree chi ride risata final. Jordi, a pessimist of nature and vocation. To respond To print Of: Him Gouverneur Date: 26/12/2008 22:01 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Happiness for all. And Luis to see if you let yourself see more by the forum. A hug To respond To print Of: rexvalrex Date: 27/12/2008 02:20 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Antón: that you do not speak before the mirror, that is listened to you well and attention is lent to you. I also am pessimistic, like Jordi, aunue for that reason I am still idealistic and I make an effort to me in thinking that something we can do. in fact I do what I can and not pierso the hope. if not outside yes, he could not continue living he would turn or me into a species of closed conformista vegatal to the other people’s pain. Perhaps mine, friend Luis (who I appreciate much to you and I am been thankful to you by your generosity) is not an excess of ?bile?, is an excess of naivete. I do what I can and I imply myself to the maximum within my possibilities in trying that the world is better. And deun problem I have had more for this reason, even in my work. What happens is that from when in cuand comes to you at the top negative flashes qu leave ice cream you. When I wrote the previous commentary was under influence of this scene, that not by habitualdeja of being less sudden. It was going with my woman to see my parents. Lagente went dressed fieta by the street, with regalosnavideño in the hands (I also, that I include myself in the lot). A scene divided the heart to me. Barefoot, dirty children gypsy and bad dresses searched carefully in a basaura container to see if they found something (perhaps some broken toy) and that vision made me feel to me bad. I cannot avoid it. I do not know if by pain, compassion or to tranquilize my it brings back to consciousness I approached them, I saluted to them and we interchanged words. They were two children and one girl of 9 to 11 years. I asked to them that they looked for. They said me that their parents had sent to them to by lgo eating. (And I that I thought that they looked for toys). So I said to them that no longer they looked for more. Close there was a house of meals to take. By mucísimo less than what an entrance costs to us, those children took their chicken with potatoes (with its Coca-Cola corresponding) thanked to Me, although I felt much more been thankful by being able to make use to them. Hatred did not say this Po to pener any medallita to me (the medals) but so that my ?pessimistic? message is clear more. I do not support the injustice, nor I can transigir with her, especially when it affects weakest, like the children. And it gives much rage me to think that if sto happens thus it is by our apathy, indifference or by our complicity. Yano I tire more to you. CAD what is how it is, and I am I took root. Happiness for all. Rex. To respond To print Of: Beltenebros Date: 27/12/2008 16:40 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! I left this in another vestibule, but I create pertinent to place it here also (with some pertinent modifications): ?I am an almost atheistic agnostic who nevertheless believes in the spirit of Christmas. I believe in my first impressions of Christmas, blurred in the fog of my two or three years of age: the bed of my parents, the warm room, the enormous mirror Belgian on the comfortable one, a red and yellow drum, a playero bucket, a hat of húsar, my parents seated in the bed, smiling to me. And about three or four years later the enormous birth that prepared my grandmother, a geography of fantasy populated with pastorcitos highlands and Jews, vaquitas, ewes, roosters, shrubs. The scent characteristic of the great cardboard-stone grotto (that had left an exciting emptiness in closet interlocked of my room, where all the year rested almost), the adamantine light bulbs? And music, naturally: my preferred album of Christmas until now, the LP of Waldo of the Rivers, brought of Argentina by my maternal grandfathers. And years later, the novena that my grandmother and my parents said every night from the 16 of December. And the anxious conciliation of the dream after at night Good dinner. I never warned in what moment Noel Papa deposited the gifts on the foot of my bed. To the six in the morning my brothers and I already had destroyed the envelopes and took by assault the room from our parents, who died of dream received to us with the open arms and simulated to be surprised as much as we of the gifts. My parents never had much money, but our illusion was first for them, and although sometimes Noel Papa or the Boy Jesus did not understand well the letters that we wrote to them and exchanged some flatteries by others, my father started up their contagious imagination and then our toys summoned up life, were the best ones of the world. Years it more advanced, to the day of the closing of classes, the unbearable suspension before abrir my note notebook and seeing the red one that, without a doubt, the chemistry professor would have printed me. But it had not so disapproved, all the courses shone numbers in blue. And the six volumes in graze lasts and gothic letters silverplated with all the ?Peruvian Traditions? of gift Ricardo Palm, savored with fervor at the same time as a delicious red wine of small barrel during the vacations in the beach house of my grandparents, in Huanchaco, in the light of a kerosene lamp or of a center of 100 watts that illuminated like one of 50. When one is fourteen years old does not understand too many things, but it lives in a paradise constantly renewed. Memory the smile of my paternal grandmother when it gave substantial gratuities to my cousins, brothers us and, even to thanked for relatives nothing, even at the cost of the money destined to its own purchases. Memory that my father the reconvino once for that reason, memory the answer of my grandmother-I hid to me behind the half-closed door, those words that summarized their way to be: ?I like to give. I am happy when I give.? And many Christmases in house, with my parents and brothers, listening close sones of the ?Tamborilero?, ?Adeste fideles?, ?Kling, Glöckchen??, ?Or Tannenbaum?, ?You listen to, Los Angeles heraldos sing?, ?Night of peace?, ?Happened in one midnight clear?, ?Small town of Bethlehem?, ?In excelsis Deo?, ?first Christmas?, all in thousand and different versions, with symphony orchestra, choir to capella, rate country, with sintetizadores, voices of rock? All that music that we had listened in house from first of the month and that was our family refuge. Brother memory small laying mouth arrives under the great tree in the room, embobado by the forest that thence it watched and the changing lights and shades. My father lay down in the ground next to him to contemplate the same spectacle; he has never stopped being young, my father. And its words frank and felt when giving the twelve, but also a species of warning that for some reason repeated to us: ?Alegrémonos now, because perhaps this is last Christmas that we pass all together ones.? Without a doubt it thought about the normal ups and downs of the life, but now it has been seeming a incosciente prophecy of the death of my sister, for three years already. I grew, I matured, I suffered, I was disappointed, I been glad, I struggled in silence after losing the ingenuous faith learned in the childhood. I never go to misa, nor per Christmas (however, I listen in the familiar house, while my parents are in the church, the Christmas Misa of Praetorius, does not matter that she is Lutheran). But there am lost no the spirit of Christmas. It is part of me, is part of our familiar inheritance. Christmas is for me a celebration, closely particularly familiar. A date of calmness, joy, celebration of a mystery that extends the religion. Also nostalgia. And the custom of the gifts, clearly. But mainly that sweet attachment to those who we want more. And, since it has been said that way, the celebration of a hope: the one of which a little more kindness, tenderness, compassion, altruism, uprightness blooms in each of us. In spite of our old woman miseries, visible and the shameful ones. He is peculiar: I have heard and read plagues of Christmas: the sentence of the mercantilismo that this religious celebration provokes, the ostentatious hypocrisy of the gifts, ?ridiculous? the judeocristiano myth that would have given rise to him. In short, all those things that already we know. Me intrigue that being an almost atheistic one to me these manifestations of meanness anger, of badness. I recognize that Christmas has been transformed into a business and also, in Peru, a dance brood of evil taste and worse music. But that IS NOT Christmas, like taking advantage of the occasion either to untie in filípicas against (the not so santa) Catholic Church and the basic stupidity of the faith in a divinity, since the atheists do of district. What has been said: I do not believe in God (almost), but believe in Christmas. I believe little in or the much love that I am and will be able to give now or tomorrow. Finally, the sense of Christmas would be locked up in these words of deep wisdom: ?Earth Peace to the men of good will?. La Paz del that even can be free in the jail, La Paz of that can sing although it undergoes the weight of the injustice and the tribulations (like everything a Singing Teacher), La Paz del that every day fights against the violence and the ignorance, La Paz that is known itself and offers to its brothers to alleviate the suffering to them. Greetings. P.D. Now in the morning [13 of December], shown the window, I saw in the park children. They were three brothers, surely. Poor children. The major would not have more than twelve years and took in arms to a baby. The hermanita wore a pink dress and grasped supermarket inserts, it did not loosen them nor although it would run or jump. What immense value would have for her those full pamphlets of incitements to the stupidest consumption. But hoarded it them like anyone of us, when young, a knick-knack without greater benefit. The joys of a niñita nothing have to do with the rotten world that we must support the adults. The parents were not in favor of any side. Perhaps they were the children who jump before the cars in the corner of America and Húsares and soon asks alms the conductors. And what Christmas will pass these small ones, where, in what conditions, and what we can cause that puta serves as one time. God mine.? P.D. I have never realised a as pious act as the one that tells Rex us. Perhaps now later, perhaps tomorrow. I am very egoistic, although it hurts to me. To respond To print Of: rexvalrex Date: 27/12/2008 23:48 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Beltenebros friend: I also keep pleasing memories from Christmas of when he was young. This way, the tradition of the gifts has been always the one of kings Magos; Noel papa was thing of outside, of American film, that with time has been gotten up. Memory that we joined my brothers and my parents and made the ?list? than we would need. One of my brothers requested a cheese ball; I, mountain ham. It bequeathed the day of Christmas Eve and we met with the rest of my family in house of the grandparents. In Christmas (25) the ?Christmas gift? occurred to the children ?you release or them?, that could consist of candies accompanied by money in metalist. Soon dinner came from Year End, with comilona, the grapes and the toasts. It was only most important: the day of Kings. We could not sleep of the anxious thing that we were. Before laying down to us we put hard bread, potato skin and water for the camels. We awoke before leaving the sun and we put ourselves to look for the gifts. I screamed, I fill of joy: The Kings live! and days later still he continued looking for by the corners in case there was some gift more. All this is very beautiful and it seems very well to me that the children have that joy, who already will have time to discover the sad reality. My parents, to whom the money did not exceed to them indeed, paid the gifts on credit. We pass estrecheces economic, since my father lost his work of worker by a swindle of the owners. He was in unemployment during years (although never we needed nothing, since my every day chapucilla left to look for some and something found from time to time. My mother (with four children) also did what could, sewing by the nights in exchange for four dogs. So that we could take milk, my parents deprived themselves of her and drank Malta. Finally, they made father in a company ?fixed?, where he was until he retired. Now she is 81 years old and he is something chocho, my mother is better and has 78. These are my Kings Magos, to whom I want with delirium and to which I must my present state. Since I have said thousand times, I am masterful, and I must to my parents, who my mother mopped floors so that I could remove the race. Story this so personal to pay public tribute to my parents and so that it is included/understood when express my ideas to me, since what better we thought depends on our origins. I never will apostatize of them, but quite the opposite, I will feel very proud. A warm greeting and my better desires for all. Rex. To respond To print Of: ls111553 Date: 28/12/2008 20:00 Subject: RE: Happiness for all! Rex: Whichever I am glad of which you have shared here what it makes see the things you you see as them! And congratulations to act within the most authentic Christmas spirit. The good actions, by individual that they have their effect ?dominated?, especially when we allowed that the others find out. I am certainly your story will have inspired to more of uno/a here putting its sand granite when they can. This year I knew of a situción very similar to that you describe, that was a viejecita, only looking for that to eat in the sweepings of the building that is in front of my office and that to make matters worse of irony is? an asylum of old! I cannot occur them of hero because the aid came of a whole group from neighbors who we organized ourselves to go a little more far. As my renter of the floor superior is the writing of a newspaper, we did not take in knowing history horror that was the life of this poor lady. I will not enter in detail, but the abuse came from one of its children. Luckily, we obtained that the nuns found place him in the asylum and by very little money (as we are several, this is not no sacrifice), is living what it has left of life in conditions much more adapted. To which I go is that if our indignation before the injustice takes to look for solutions to us (individual or collective), welcome is the pesimism, because it is in fact bad-tempered optimism. I, with the permission of all, will continue considering the average glasses of beer like means full and not half empty. What barbarism! I finish deciding with great nostalgia of the Maisel’s Weisse de Bayreuth. A wonder of light beer? but never watered down and with a pleasing saborcito to apple? Hey, and of step: thank you very much by the one of the ART video. He is fabulous! And also blog of Antonio de Diego and the guide of studies on Wagner of the professor of the University of Texas. For a long time I have been about to explore the possibilities of sharing recordings between those of the forum a little beyond the unloadings, but this is for beginning another subject, which I will try after the celebrations. Until soon to all, Luis Luis |
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| Fíjate tú que gracias a este traductor nos van a poder cotillear las conversaciones los anglo-parlantes.Que conste que tomo nota de la página. Pero fíjate lo que me ha pasado: al traducir un texto del alemán al inglés ha quedado una cosa más o menos comprensible; cuando he vuelto a darle a la tecla de traducción del inglés al español me ha quedado un texto que me ha recordado "mogollón" a lo que hace Beckmesser con el poema de Walther von Stolzing en el tercer acto de Meistersinger. Todavía me duele el diafragma. |
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La verdad es que no es ninguna panacea y dista mucho de la perfección. Para textos sencillos tiene un pase. Pero, por aquello de "traduttore, tradittore", cuanto más pases de lengua, más "traición". La Conselleria d’Educació valenciana tiene un traductor gratuito, el "Salt", que está bastant bien, pero de todos modos has de revisar el texto para no darte sorpresas. Una cosa buena que tiene es que cuando hay diferentes posibles soluciones, te lo indica para que elijas la solución que más te convenga. aún así, resultan graciosas eterminadas traducciones. Por ejemplo: "cap" es una palabra de grn riqueza polisémica, ya que, según el contexto puede significar "cabeza", "jefe", "ningún", "hacia", "punta", "extremo", "cabe"... Así, esta frase: "Em fa mal el cap" ("Me duele la cabeza") te la podría traducir "Me hace mal el jefe", "Me duele la punta", o similares. La verdad es que -de momento- las máquinas no nos sustituyen en todo. El mejor traductor es un señor o señora que conozca las lenguas en cuestión. Saludos. Rex. |
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Hola a todos: La verdad que estos programas traductores dejan bastante que desear. Traducen literalmente palabra por palabra y no tienen en cuenta expresiones coloquiales. Si escribes un texto traducido por algún programa de estos a algún colega que hable esa lengua, se puede hacer la picha un lío. Os pongo un ejemplo que podéis comprobar: Yo escribo a un colega alemán, ¿que tal estás?. El traductor, respeta la palabra "tal", ya que la reconoce como alemana, que significa valle. Lo que le llega a él es: Wie Tal Geht’s?. Esto no tiene sentido. Haciendo un esfuerzo, el alemán traduciría, Cómo te va el valle?. Imaginaos lo qué pensaría este tío de mí. Lo dicho por Rex es lo correcto. Lo mejor es aprender el idioma y dejarse de traducciones. Un saludo. Gayarre |